Note: There’s an intro, the DDA response, and Fred’s response in this article. Jump to the end to read Fred’s response.
A few months back, we posted a nice little article on using Asterisk to get Parking Space Availability from Ann Arbor garages. The response from the VoIP community was fantastic! We received great comments and feedback from people like Jason Goecke, Dug Song, Dave Michels, Evan Cooke, and more! People not only responded, they even showed different ways of providing access to this information. And everyone shared their work in an open forum — truly a great example of open source coding inspiring innovation (albeit with Parking Spaces).
Even better was the local response in Ann Arbor. Edward Vielmetti and Fred Posner were interviewed in the local papers, appeared on a radio show, and even rode the teeter totter. Everyone loved the idea of being able to check on parking space availability… everyone except for the DDA (insert scary music).
The DDA (Ann Arbor Downtown Development Authority), funded by tax dollars, “provides a diversity of transportation and parking options to meet downtown’s [Ann Arbor’s] ever-changing needs.” The DDA does not like us making information of parking spaces available to the public via phone. Instead, the DDA wants to control this information. Seriously, they want to control parking space availability information.
Tyler Erickson helped Edward Vielmetti and Fred make this project even more fascinating by tracking parking space availability over time. The plan was to provide predictability of availability. For example, “We’re sorry, the lot at 4th and Washington is currently filled, we predict the parking lot will be available in 7 minutes. Press 1 to be notified…”
Wouldn’t that be neat? We thought so… The DDA’s response was to block Tyler’s access. Of course, since it was using Google Apps, it blocked Google, but that’s another story. We inquired as to why this blockage occurred and… well enter Susan Pollay. Susan Pollay is Executive Director of the DDA. She told us (and remember, this is a tax funded organization):
“Hi all. Over the last day or so I have talked about your project with a few DDA members and what arose from these conversations was a shared concern that because the project was not an initiative created by/run by the DDA there are no controls in place for this at present. For instance, there is no DDA policy about how to allow /or even if it should allow an outside group to use the DDA’s parking data for a private enterprise. There is a concern about how unsecure/secure the DDA website is made when sharing this data. And finally, a concern that if the project had value to parking patrons, that the DDA itself should consider providing this service as an extension of what it is already doing on-line.”
Interesting… but the story doesn’t stop there. Due to real-life concerns of all of us, we kind of let this project move to the back burner. But then, two days ago Edward Vielmetti noticed the DDA website was no longer publishing real-time parking information. The response from Susan Polly follows:
From: Susan Pollay
Subject: RE: DDA real time parking data via web is not working // was Fwd: parking app busted again
Date: March 12, 2009 11:36:56 AM GMT-04:00
To: Sabra Briere, Edward Vielmetti
Cc: Margie Teall, Christopher TaylorC, Carsten Hohnke, Fred Posner, Tyler EricksonMany thanks for this and other emails. The DDA became aware of Mr. Vielmetti’s project after reading about it in the press. Immediately a number of concerns were expressed including 1) no permission from the DDA was granted before this project got underway, 2) this project hopes to sell this software to other communities and thereby make a profit and is using DDA-generated information to accomplish this, 3) the DDA has no control over what is done with this information yet this information is attributed to the DDA, 4) persons interested in finding out about parking structure vacancies must make a toll-call out of state.
The DDA Operations Committee met and discussed these concerns. Their resolve was to provide information by phone to interested members of the public using real human beings answering phones at the Republic Parking office.
There are several benefits to the public with this arrangement. 1) Republic Parking staff members can provide the follow up information that an automated system can’t. e.g. You call to find out if there are vacancies at 4th & Washington – and if there are no vacancies or very few, Republic Parking staff can suggest a nearby convenient alternative parking location. They can give directions to the parking structure. They can provide information like yes, they do take credit cards. The automated system only tells you there are 0 spaces available. 2) Republic Parking staff members can keep track of how many people are calling, what structures they call about most often, the follow up questions, etc. This way if we ever decide to acquire an automated phone system we know how to prioritize and provide the information most sought after by patrons. The DDA would have retrieved none of this information from Mr. Vielmetti. And finally 3) a call to Republic Parking is not a toll call. It is a local office, staffed 24 hours a day, 6 days a week (Sundays all facilities are open and unlikely there are vacancy concerns).
Thanks again for contacting me. I hope to be helpful, so please let me know if I can answer any additional questions about this…..
Best wishes.
Susan
WOW!
Fred’s response follows:
From: Fred Posner
Subject: Re: DDA real time parking data via web is not working // was Fwd: parking app busted again
Date: March 12, 2009 4:13:08 PM GMT-04:00
To: Susan Pollay
Good afternoon,
First, my apologies to Tyler and Carsten. They both wrote exceptional, professionally toned replies. I, however, am so appalled at this email, that I must speak directly to the points mentioned.
Susan, the DDA is funded by tax dollars and parking fees. Perhaps you have forgotten that public money is used to fund the DDA’s mission to serve the public? Allow me to introduce you to the concepts of open government and “public domain.” I don’t want to waste everyone’s time here, but please read up on these concepts so we can be on the same page.
Lets take your first point:
“No permission from the DDA was granted before this project got underway”
What permission should we have gotten? The DDA publishes parking space availability on the internet and on big, bright signs attached on garages. Do you believe that this is classified information that should be controlled by the government? If I asked someone if they knew how many spaces were available, should they say to me “I’m sorry Fred, I don’t have specific permission from the DDA to release that information.” Should people who release this information be considered enemies of the state and locked in Guantanamo Bay?
The bottom line here is that to horde this information is ridiculous. Let’s forget the tax/government/information aspect for a second. Even if this were private parking, I could never imagine an organization that would say… “Hey, I don’t want people to know that I have spaces available. They might come give money to park here.” An example of this is movie theaters. Movie theaters regularly welcome people announcing availability of shows and times. Why? Because they want to fill the seats. And if the seats are full, they want to let people know so they will plan to come back at a time when there is availability. With this in mind, there are many, many private companies that assist movie theaters with publishing this information on websites and phones.
This translates well to Ann Arbor Parking. I’m sure the citizens that you serve would like access to information. I’m also certain that the businesses would like people to know that parking is available. And, I’m certain they want a lot of access to that information. After all, no one suffers from having too much access to the same information. But the DDA response was completely the opposite. You actively stopped us from getting this information by blocking IP’s (such as google application server) and changing the format of the information.
In regards to needing your permission, I say simply, “You’re wrong. Either the information is public information on the public internet and public signs, or it’s private information that should be properly secured. Your idea that this public information must be secured is wrong. The idea is wrong, the approach is wrong, and the underlying ideology is wrong.”
Let’s look at point number 2:
“this project hopes to sell this software to other communities and thereby make a profit and is using DDA-generated information to accomplish this”
Wrong. Simply wrong. And your saying this is borderline libelous. Ed, Tyler, and I did this project to provide information. No money was thought of, and as a matter of fact, it cost me money to provide phone service for the beta project. Not only did we do this work for FREE, we also published the work, the source, and the methods online. We published the code we wrote and entered it into the public domain.
You know what happened when we did this? Others wrote similar code and also published it online. A discussion of open sharing of information took place with some very big names in the VoIP (voice over Internet) industry. We all shared code and provided public information to our work. Sadly, private companies and individuals are willing to share information, but the public DDA is not… that seems backwards, no?
Take a look at the post written on VoIP Tech Chat and the discussion that followed:
Point number 3:
“the DDA has no control over what is done with this information yet this information is attributed to the DDA”
Ok. When I was in third grade I had to write a report where I researched information and cited my sources. I attributed the information I learned and gave credit to the source so that others could also get that same information. This “marvel” concept of citing sources is still used today.
I must ask, what control of this information is needed? “My goodness, it’s crazy. I can’t believe it… with this parking space availability information… I can unlock the secret to who killed Kennedy!!!! Eureka!”
Sarcasm aside, the thought of government controlling information means the end of freedom. Information is for people and there’s a reason why people need access to information. If you have thoughts of controlling information, please leave government. Also, citing the source of information is not a problem, it’s actually proper, responsible, and good practice.
Point number 4:
“persons interested in finding out about parking structure vacancies must make a toll-call out of state.”
Wrong. At one point, I had this project linked to a 212 number. Why? Because I could support unlimited callers at that number. I did this at a cost of 1.5 cents per minute from my pocket. It took me two weeks, but we received a local Ann Arbor number capable of having more than 2 simultaneous calls. So for a brief 10 day period, you needed to dial 212. Then you could dial 734. We released this information online, over the radio, and to newspapers… So basically, since January 20th, you’re wrong (and we really didn’t make this live until January 10th).
But let’s take this a step further… and say “So what?” Right now the DDA releases this information only online at at the garage. If people want to make this available via SMS, Phone, Twitter, Facebook, Smoke Signal, Tea Leaves, or whatever communicative method one can imagine, it’s simply another way to access the same information. After all, no one suffers from having too much access to the same information.
So, not only is there a local number, it shouldn’t matter if there wasn’t. I truly see implementing a Detroit number, maybe Toledo, Grand Rapids… and more. Could you imagine the possibility of people from another area calling a local number (for them) to visit Ann Arbor? I can… and wow, that would be great.
Benefit number 1:
“Republic Parking staff members can provide the follow up information that an automated system cant. e.g. You call to find out if there are vacancies at 4th & Washington and if there are no vacancies or very few, Republic Parking staff can suggest a nearby convenient alternative parking location. They can give directions to the parking structure. They can provide information like yes, they do take credit cards. The automated system only tells you there are 0 spaces available”
Our system not only can do all this, it can do more. Our system can speak many languages. Our system won’t call in sick. Our system doesn’t have attitude, ever. And here’s the best part… Our system doesn’t only say there are “0″ spaces available. Our system actually calls you back when spots are available. Our system will also call you back when there are no more spots available. Are you going to have Republic Parking do that? Our system can give instructions, make recommendations, provide hours, and do much more than a staffed person and it costs you… nothing. No benefits, no salary, no cost, and yet more service.
Benefit number 2:
“Republic Parking staff members can keep track of how many people are calling, what structures they call about most often, the follow up questions, etc. This way if we ever decide to acquire an automated phone system we know how to prioritize and provide the information most sought after by patrons. The DDA would have retrieved none of this information from Mr. Vielmetti.”
We keep track of this information. Any time you want it, all you have to do is ask. Unlike the DDA, Mr. Vielmetti, Mr. Posner, and Mr. Erickson have demonstrated an ability and willingness to share information.
Final Benefit number 3:
“a call to Republic Parking is not a toll call. It is a local office, staffed 24 hours a day, 6 days a week (Sundays all facilities are open and unlikely there are vacancy concerns).”
A call to Republic Parking can be a toll call for many of the users who travel from out of town or are students here in Ann Arbor but I already addressed that above. Our system is a local call to Ann Arbor right now which you imply otherwise. Also, our system is open 24/7 and yes, you do have some availability problems on Sunday… well at least we could see that when you weren’t blocking access to the information.
Sometimes it helps to have other people look at information, this way we can assist you when you make incorrect statements. Your statement is a PERFECT illustration of why open access to information is needed. Open access to information corrects statements that interpret information incorrectly.
In closing…
Right now I wear two hats. I’m both a Florida Resident and am renting in Pittsfield Township. I also own a small business. After watching these Jeff Daniels’ commercials promoting the benefits of doing business in Michigan, I was very seriously considering moving my business from Florida to Michigan. However, dealing with the DDA has really opened my eyes.
You see, I’ve worked for the government. And say what you want about Florida, we take public access to government very seriously in the Sunshine state. We have what is called the Sunshine Law that provides both criminal and civil penalties when public access is restricted. It’s a great law, and perhaps needed here as well. You see, I believe, as many others do, that in a government of the people and by the people, that information belongs to the people. Government agencies, such as the DDA, should help get information to the public, not wish to control it.
The thought of the DDA requiring permission to access public information and / or control information is not only a scary thought; it’s absolutely anti-American. After all, no one suffers from having too much access to the same information.
A personal hero of mine has always been Benjamin Franklin, and I leave you with this:
“Never trust a government that doesn’t trust its own citizens…”
Fred Posner
PS…
Wonder why the phone number can’t tell you the available spaces? We are specifically blocked and forbidden to access their website. Here’s the page we get:
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//IETF//DTD HTML 2.0//EN"> <html><head> <title>403 Forbidden</title> </head><body> <h1>Forbidden</h1> <p>You don't have permission to access /parking__transportation/available_parking_spots/ on this server.</p> <hr> <address>Apache/2.2.4 (Unix) mod_ssl/2.2.4 OpenSSL/0.9.7a DAV/2 mod_jk/1.2.20 PHP/5.2.1 Server at a2dda.org Port 80</address> </body></html>
Welcome to the new world order.
It is clear that some local government officials need a civics course. A briefing on modern web technologies and trends. And then a willingness for open dialogue with the public.
Good luck with that.
Jason
12 Mar 09 at 6:22 pm
Wow indeed. A couple of other things that they don’t seem to get spring to mind:
- most folk will be calling from cellphones, so the local/out of state number point is pretty much moot;
- given the availability of two systems, people will choose either the automated one or to speak to a human – sophisticated users might well use both depending on their circumstances.
And do I see a “partnering with our community” section on their website?
–Dave
David Knell
12 Mar 09 at 6:55 pm
This is very disturbing that the Ann Arbor DDA would go to such an extent to block public access to public data. I am hugely disappointed.
– Steve
Steve Pierce
12 Mar 09 at 7:05 pm
[...] posted an article on VoIP Tech Chat detailing the Ann Arbor DDA doing just that. My response to them is at the end… Please [...]
Ann Arbor Blocks My Parking App | Fred Posner dot com
12 Mar 09 at 7:09 pm
A2DDA is a continuing a well worn and sadly recurring theme “If it isn’t invented here it must not be any good” mentality that is so devastating to our community and the region.
This is the same mentality we got a year ago when we launched Wireless Ypsi. Government officials both at the county and at the local level in A2 and Ypsi tried to sub-marine Wireless Ypsi.
One official at a local economic development group told local elected officials and business leaders that what Wireless Ypsi was doing was illegal. It took us months to undo the damage.
I hope this current lapse in common sense is just that, a momentary lapse, and that our elected and appointed officials on the A2DDA kindly say oops, never mind, this is a good thing, and grant access to public data to the public.
If they don’t remember, almost everyone of the members of the DDA owns a local business.
If this doesn’t get sorted out quickly, I think we should organize a boycott and demonstration at the doorsteps of each every business. The tech industry in A2 and Ypsi are huge patrons of the arts, food, and shopping. We can vote with our dollars and make a difference.
Not one of these business leaders would want 30 or 50 or even more folks in front of the business protesting their irresponsible actions.
While officials are in D.C. are meeting with the Obama administration to open up public records in unprecedented new ways that will benefit our community and country, we have our own cadre of “bushies” in our own county, in our own town, telling us we can’t be trusted with this data.
Disappointing,
Steve Pierce
Ypsilanti
Steve Pierce
12 Mar 09 at 7:22 pm
Excellent work! Might I suggest bringing this to the attention of your local and nearby broadcasters. Newsrooms thrive on such acts of government. And government rarely appreciates the light of day shone so brightly on its thoughtless acts.
Michael Graves
12 Mar 09 at 9:08 pm
[...] 03/12/2009 shit, i didn’t know what it was and i googled it, it was an accident! A2DDA Blocks Asterisk Parking Data – voiptechchat.com 03/12/2009 Note: There’s an intro, the DDA response, and Fred’s response in [...]
Posts about Google as of March 12, 2009 | Buzz Newsroom
12 Mar 09 at 9:12 pm
Thanks Fred for posting all of this. (And welcome back from Florida, man, you must really love it here to come back to it all.)
I organize a weekly lunch in downtown Ann Arbor, and people drive in from far enough away (someone was in from Hamtramck today) that finding parking is a regular issue. Being able to say with confidence that there’s a place for everyone to park who has to drive in to join me for lunch is a big plus, especially when you have 34 people at the table like we did today, and 75 for lunch yesterday at a preso I did on developing mobile phone applications (so ironic).
I’m confident that at some point some elected official will see that part of the reason you have a city that tries to attract a “creative class” is that occasionally people will create something that you didn’t plan for.
Steve, I suspect that the most effective leverage point for this particular DDA is through elected officials who appoint the board (that would be the mayor of Ann Arbor) and through city council which has some oversight over policy. I haven’t had anything but positive and helpful responses from my friends on City Council who I told about this.
Edward Vielmetti
12 Mar 09 at 9:50 pm
While I haven’t ever had a problem finding a parking place downtown, I have been watching the developments related to the dial-a-parking-garage with much interested. Mainly because some interesting people found some interesting ways to access and share information. Public information repackaged into a new channel that might actually bring more people downtown. And isn’t that the ultimate goal? Get people out of the strip malls and into our downtown?
Ryan McGee
12 Mar 09 at 10:07 pm
Ed,
You are absolutely right. The DDA board is appointed and accountable to A2 Mayor and Council and I am glad the council seems receptive to the keeping public acces to public data.
The DDA is also accountable to the DDA district property owners that pay the taxes and operating millage that funds the DDA.
It seems our government never passes up the opportunity to make the wrong decision. I hope they they don’t pass up the to do the right thing this time.
– Steve
Steve Pierce
12 Mar 09 at 10:43 pm
Some people are afraid of “magic” (in the Arthur C. Clarke since). Others embrace it and want to know how it works. Sadly, someone quick to scare was placed in an office, and given power. The “voodoo” that was being done was brought to their attention, and they panicked.
I find it hilarious that they banned Google’s API. “Cutting off the nose to spite the face” fits quite well here.
syn
12 Mar 09 at 11:57 pm
[...] [...]
Posts about Software as of March 13, 2009 | Easy Reach Software
12 Mar 09 at 11:59 pm
How sad we live in a community where some officials still don’t get the new economy and the importance of free flow of public information.
How sad there still are some decision makers who work hard to stifle innovation and miss the opportunities that innovation provides.
First observation: Think of the time wasted suppressing this harmless, beneficial application… time that could have been spent working on the other unmet needs.
Second observation: Restricting ready access to information about a public funded operation sets a bad precedent. When I started monitoring the Pall/Gelman 1,4-dioxane groundwater contamination west of Ann Arbor back in 1993, the only sampling data the public had access to came via photocopies of monthly sampling results. After few years of transcribing the data via OCR and hand correcting the mistakes in order to do any computer analysis (while periodically asking for electronic copies of the data), we finally convinced the powers that be to occasionally provide an electronic copies of the data.
Without that, we could not have documented the increasing contamination trends into new areas. Without that trend documentation, we might not have convinced the DEQ to require Pall/Gelman to drill new sampling wells all the bedrock. Without the deeper drilling, they would not have discovered the deeper contamination threatening more drinking water supplies… perhaps even Barton Pond where Ann Arbor gets 80% of its water for 150,000 people. If Republic Parking and the DDA can suppress simple parking data, why couldn’t Pall/Gelman suppress their water sampling data? A bad precedent indeed.
The public can help our government units be more effective by analyzing data and presenting it in formats that decision makers and citizens can use. Citizens, especially here in a presumably high tech town like Ann Arbor, have the tools and know how to supplement the often-underfunded government operations and provide better understanding of problems and prevent/solve them. But without ready access to the data, those benefits are lost and bad decisions will be made… again and again. And that would be a shame.
Roger Rayle
13 Mar 09 at 1:11 am
Having public access to parking data puts the public in charge. Hmmm, maybe we don’t want the public knowing things. That is why we have experts.
– Steve
Steve Pierce
13 Mar 09 at 8:29 am
Actions like this seriously compromise the very real work being done by the local tech community to diversify Ann Arbor’s economy beyond the traditional “The U”, restaurants, and shops that sell tsochkes to people visiting during Art Fair.
Nobody likes the damage control bone-headed moves like this call for when you’re trying to sell Ann Arbor as an up-and-coming tech/info haven with a midwest feel.
Frustrating the efforts of local technology volunteers to improve the city’s running is something Ann Arbor should have a clear policy of avoiding. The mayor should seriously reconsider if this is the kind of downtown he wants to develop.
Trek Glowacki
13 Mar 09 at 10:17 am
Were this a private company, they would have every right to say, “it’s our data, so nyah!” Government entities might reserve that right as well. They might also be concerned about possible liabilities and lawsuits that might result from use of this information that they do not control.
However, my guess is that someone wants to get paid. Either the department is looking to write similar software and sell it to other governments, or an individual in the DDA is attempting to take credit for something and sees your work as a threat to that. It wouldn’t be a bad idea to use what you’ve created and do some preliminary patent work–can a patent be freely licensed?
The bummer about problems like this is that it’s difficult for non-technorati to wrap their heads around why this is important. It might make sense for you to throw together three concise talking points that other Ann Arborites can use to discuss this and help the wrongs get righted.
Ryan Cannon
13 Mar 09 at 11:41 am
What is susan polly’s email address?
Rex
13 Mar 09 at 11:59 am
BTW, despite what’s on the excerpted correspondence, the name is actually Susan Pollay. (I don’t have her email address, just pointing that out in case someone tries Google or ArborWiki.)
Ian Jones
13 Mar 09 at 12:15 pm
“Our system will also call you back when there are no more spots available. Are you going to have Republic Parking do that? Our system can give instructions, make recommendations, provide hours, and do much more than a staffed person and it costs you… nothing. No benefits, no salary, no cost, and yet more service.”
I expect you meant that “it costs US…nothing” since “we” (I mean you, not them you, but you you–I live in Minnesota) are paying the tab, the DDA doesn’t really have any “you” money.
Don Kelly
13 Mar 09 at 12:16 pm
I’d be curious to know what the Ann Arbor News reporter who interviewed you folks would have to say in a followup. Or if he would even care.
I also wonder if Republic Parking have a financial stake in producing maps themselves? Maybe they haven’t gotten around to it, yet, and they just want to squash any competition that uses “their” data before their IT folks or some contractors write the Oracle/PHP code to make it go.
But I suspect it’s another example of dyed-in-the-wool inertia.
Bill Tozier
13 Mar 09 at 12:16 pm
Thank you. The name spelling has been corrected. And thank you all for the comments.
The contact information for the A2DDA can be found here:
A2DDA Who We Are
Fred
13 Mar 09 at 12:24 pm
I sent a short message to spollay@a2dda.org, Cc’ing JHieftje@a2gov.org, jmorehouse@a2dda.org, jlyke@a2dda.org, lhard@a2dda.org. I referenced this post and let them know what another ann arbor resident thinks of this mess. I suggest you do the same!
Rex
13 Mar 09 at 12:52 pm
Ann Arbor Downtown Development Authority: Your dollars at work in local govt… NOT: http://tr.im/a2dda – geeze people, get a grip!
Jazz blues wine voip
13 Mar 09 at 1:09 pm
RT @mattroush: Ann Arbor DDA is treating PARKING INFO like nuclear secrets. http://tinyurl.com/a9p4gz
Edward Vielmetti
13 Mar 09 at 3:07 pm
Listening to the @voipusers conference to listen to @fredposner talking about http://bit.ly/ddablocksvoip #a2dda
Edward Vielmetti
13 Mar 09 at 4:02 pm
There’s additional discussion of this in a thread on the Washtenaw Biking and Walking Coalition site, with the title “DDA suppression of parking space data”.
Edward Vielmetti
13 Mar 09 at 9:20 pm
This whole discussion is fascinating to me. I thought, for the sake of thoroughness, I would try calling the 24/7 humans at Republic Parking to find out how many spaces are open at 4th and William right now.
It was just after midnight on a Friday night (my kids are having a sleepover, so I’m up late). I googled for the number to call and eventually came up with 761-7235. A man answered after just a ring or two, in a professional manner. I asked (even said please) if he could tell me how many spaces were open at the 4th and William structure.
No, he couldn’t, he told me. Said he didn’t have that information and would have to look it up. Told me to call back in 5 minutes. Mind you, he was nice about all of it; not snippy or anything. I didn’t understand all of his explanation – said something about the fact that he was doing other things; I think it involved closing out cash drawers.
Polite as he may have been, ‘call back in 5 minutes because I’m busy right now’ is not real-time parking data, however. My experience was not enhanced by speaking to a human being.
I realize it’s only one data point, but if Ms. Pollay and crew are serious in their argument that talking to a human for this information is better than an automated service, they need to make sure that the Republic Parking employees are on the same page and understand the service level that is expected when citizens call for this information. With an automated service, I don’t have to wait 5 minutes for an answer (and I don’t have to interrupt a busy employee who is attending to other more pressing duties). So Ms. Pollay, there’s your first customer service issue to take up with Republic if you’re certain that this information is better delivered by a human-staffed phone line than an automated service.
Laura
13 Mar 09 at 11:31 pm
[...] A2DDA Blocks Asterisk Parking Data | VoIP Tech Chat “Hi all. Over the last day or so I have talked about your project with a few DDA members and what arose from these conversations was a shared concern that because the project was not an initiative created by/run by the DDA there are no controls in place for this at present. For instance, there is no DDA policy about how to allow /or even if it should allow an outside group to use the DDA’s parking data for a private enterprise. There is a concern about how unsecure/secure the DDA website is made when sharing this data. And finally, a concern that if the project had value to parking patrons, that the DDA itself should consider providing this service as an extension of what it is already doing on-line.” (tags: community activism data-access openness government government2.0 local Ann-Arbor disintermediation watershed) [...]
Notional Slurry » links for 2009-03-13
14 Mar 09 at 1:01 am
My request to the DDA for access to this information has been provided to them in the form of a letter that’s queued up for printing at Postful. While I wait for someone else’s printer to print, here’s a copy of the records request to the Ann Arbor DDA for parking data under the Michigan FOIA statutes.
My track record for FOIA has been pretty good; the AATA and SMART have both provided electronic schedule data for their transit systems. I’m hoping this is just as simple.
Edward Vielmetti
14 Mar 09 at 1:38 am
Fred and I are quoted in an Ann Arbor News story by Dave Gershman:
Ann Arbor Downtown Development Authority pulls the plug on computerized parking spot program
The other quote is from the DDA spokesman Joe Morehouse, regarding the DDA’s new 24 hr parking hotline number:
Edward Vielmetti
14 Mar 09 at 7:58 am
Wiki page up at a2geeks:
A2 DDA Realtime Parking Data
Please log pointers to code, systems, messages posted to public mailing lists, blogs, news articles etc so that we get a timeline for this that’s as complete as possible should the FOIA request I sent in need to go to appeal if the determination is to deny all or a portion of the request (MCL 15.240).
Edward Vielmetti
14 Mar 09 at 10:25 am
RT @MEDeCaluwe: Ann Arbor MI – govt gone wild! Are we REALLY surprised? (From a FB friend post): http://tinyurl.com/au8xx2
Edward Vielmetti
14 Mar 09 at 7:33 pm
Fred, Welcome back to Michigan and I know you weren’t asking for a big mess when you started all this. You worked efficiently, effectively and created a solution that works!
I’m sorry it has come down to this but I appreciate your excellent coverage of the status and I think as the community at large learns about this…DDA is going to be changing their attitude. I do believe Ann Arbor would boycott and citizens would not stand for suppression of technology and development.
Don’t give up on Michigan or Ann Arbor as yet Fred. We are behind you.
Karen Moorhead
15 Mar 09 at 8:12 am
Some organizations get Web 2.0, others don’t. Some units of government get open government, some don’t. In D.C. we’ve had several extremes in both areas, but the leadership in the DC government should serve as an example of what can be accomplished for both transparency in government and in making public information more available to, uh, the public (the great unwashed, etc.).
http://www.appsfordemocracy.org/
http://blogs.gartner.com/andrea_dimaio/2008/11/13/web-20-apps-winners-chosen-in-dc/
ParkIt DC drills down further than availability to get into functioning of the overall system including failed meters
http://www.parkitdc.com/
Other variations on these mashups can be seen at:
http://www.programmableweb.com/tag/parking
I was an Ann Arbor CouncilPerson in the PI (pre-Internet) era when AATA received demonstration grants for information sharing programs. One attempt was to provide real time bus route information (to be displayed on a cable tv channel) so you’d know how soon to leave home to catch the next bus. I can’t help but compare the struggles all concerned had trying to beat the technology into usability. In contrast today the technologies are more compliant but the organizations less so.
We can do better than this, yes we can….
Ken Latta
15 Mar 09 at 7:19 pm
[...] Which brings us to… (if you want to see more details on Fred vs. the DDA, click here) [...]
Benjamin Franklin, Motorcycles, and Ann Arbor Parking | Fred Posner dot com
16 Mar 09 at 10:26 am
[...] Apparently this is where the DDA first heard of the cool, geeky thing that had happened as a consequence of their publication of the data. As far as I can tell, they reacted just like anybody in the 1970s would have done: they noticed belatedly that their cultural role as gatekeeper was being undermined, and so they shut down the phone service access to the numbers. [...]
Notional Slurry » Hey, I checked our records. You didn’t say you wanted a revolution after all. Sorry!
16 Mar 09 at 4:24 pm
Here’s a post from 2006 on how bad software licensing by the University of Minnesota killed the most popular internet browser of the day, Gopher, back in 1993; I get quoted in it.
http://www.sixapart.com/blog/2006/08/digging_up_info.html
Edward Vielmetti
16 Mar 09 at 11:28 pm
Fred,
Thanks for the post. I must say you letter had some great points in it. Unfortunately, I doubt the intended recipients ever read past the reference to Guantanamo. There and in a couple of other places you really went over the top, from “upset” to “lunatic”. I get what you’re saying, and I agree with you, but when you start to sound like this, people who are not on your side already will generally tune you out. Just sayin’…
Wolfger
17 Mar 09 at 8:04 am
Great article. Interesting how the DDA couched their argument to sound like the automated system was taking away someone’s job.
You might want to fix a typo: s/horde/hoard/.
Jonathan Billings
17 Mar 09 at 11:39 am
If you look at the bottom of the availability list from http://a2dda.org/parking__transportation/available_parking_spots/ (e.g. this text grab):
Location # of Open Spots
Ann and Ashley: ………………………. 456
4th and William: ………………………. 298
Forest: ………………………. 285
4th and Washington: ………………………. 43
Maynard: ………………………. 219
Liberty Square: ………………………. 113
Library Lot: ………………………. 115
First and Huron: ………………………. 0
South Ashley: ………………………. 1
*** Parking updates are provided every minute by Republic Parking ***
You will see that the information is being provided by Republic Parking. Dollars to donuts, the source of the push back isn’t DDA but Republic Parking. They now see providing this information as a business opportunity and is trying to shut your project down so that they can get going without competition. I will also wager that they have downloaded your code and if the service is every offered for a fee, by either Republic Parking or some other company, that they are using your code. I also posit that Republic sweetened the pot by offering revenue sharing for exclusive rights to offering this data via the phone or any other electronic means.
Anonymous
17 Mar 09 at 4:01 pm
The data is still there, but you are being blocked? How about we build an army of proxies to scrape that data for you. Are they going to block the world and shut the app down? You can still get the data, you just need to jump through a proxy, or we could build a little client that runs on 1440 machines that grabs the data once a day and sends it to you.
nik martin
17 Mar 09 at 4:14 pm
What a profound read, I would love to see the response from this one.
My hat is off to the author of the response letter and thanks for sharing this blog!
Aaron
17 Mar 09 at 4:19 pm
They are living the Dark Ages. Concern because it is an out of state number? I have not worried about a long distance call this century!
Most people have unlimited long distance now and those that don’t probably would not know how to use this service anyway.
Bob
17 Mar 09 at 5:02 pm
If you really think condescending, inflammatory, over-the-top e-mails are the way to get results, best of luck. Even as one who pretty much agrees with you, I was decidedly turned off after just a few paragraphs.
You should probably stick to sitting alone in front of your laptop writing code. This interacting with people thing isn’t for you.
downtowner
17 Mar 09 at 5:13 pm
Thanks for sharing. This is ridiculous.
I tweeted to spread the word: http://twitter.com/tenaciousJk/status/1344953370
Jake
17 Mar 09 at 5:16 pm
This response letter is in really bad taste. Do you think you’re going to win their support by berating and insulting them? The letter is five pages long and loaded with sarcasm and ridiculous references. I’m surprised there’s no mention of Hitler or the Holocaust. You need to start reading Consumerist so you can learn how to write a productive complaint letter that will be taken seriously.
Jenn
17 Mar 09 at 5:34 pm
reddit.com thinks you guys are hackers (and the story has been voted pretty high up in the Programming category), so that’s fun.
I, um, also indignantly Tweeted this yesterday, but my followers are few.
John
17 Mar 09 at 6:30 pm
Obviously I am going to come down on the supporting side here, but I can’t help but to respond to the belief that sarcasm weakens the argument, and professionalism strengthens it.
Leading up to this there was substantial back and forth not captured in this post that was very professional and done with nothing but positivity and respect for the A2DDA. This whole process started with the A2DDA claiming the blocking of specific IP’s was an “accident” and due to “unrelated security upgrades.” It took weeks of back and forth and discussion before they outright admitted they were actively blocking specific hosts from accessing their information while PAYING a different third party to provide a completely different service that they felt was “more useful.”
I believe the mistake being made is to believe that this letter has the expectation of suddenly making A2DDA reasonable and able to make sound decisions. While that is the ultimate desire, the tone of the letter was the exercising of an opportunity for satire to illustrate the sheer lunacy of their proposal that citizens using publicly available information provided by a public organization was stealing, then using public funds to pay for a private company to provide LESS service.
Patrick
17 Mar 09 at 7:23 pm
I live in Ann Arbor. I think I’ll go to the next DDA monthly meeting; the meetings are open to the public. From http://www.a2dda.org/about_the_dda/who_we_are/
“The DDA typically holds its meetings on the first Wednesday of every month at noon at the DDA Office, 150 S. Fifth Avenue, Suite 301, Ann Arbor 48104, although generally no meeting is held in August. Members of the public are welcome to attend, and time is set aside at the beginning and end of each monthly meeting for public comment.”
I’m going to go and voice my thoughts at the DDA meeting, by calmly suggesting that the hasty decision made to block access to this service was not to the benefit of Ann Arbor residents and businesses. Does anyone want to come along?
I think it’s unfortunate that Susan Pollay has decided that denying access to the information to one particular organization, while providing it to the public at large is an odd choice. I’m surprised that the DDA hasn’t seized on this opportunity to tout the advantages and flexibility of the system they have created for the community to take advantage of.
Two other quick notes: I don’t have a cell-phone, so I can’t take advantage of this system, but the parking structures are often full. In fact I think that nearly 50% of the time I need to find other parking. I’m specifically referring to the periods in the late morning (around 10-11 am) on weekdays (at theThompson/Division/Liberty and Church/Forest structures), and in the evening (8-10 pm) on weekends (at the 4th/Washington structure). You should also keep in mind that the inventory system they’re using the in parking structures is quite flawed. I have seen the ‘available parking’ signs say that 200 spots are open, but then I drive to the top floor of the structure without seeing a single non-handicapped spot, likewise, I have seen the signs advertise 0 spots available with plenty of room.
Francis Esmonde-White
17 Mar 09 at 7:46 pm
There seems to be a general issue in one of their points (albeit not entirely applicable to this case)… what if a private company started to use this public data to provide services at a fee for a profit? Or a non-profit group used the data to provide a service which in turn promoted their cause? The public, by way of the DDA, would be a data-provider and providing a service for the company or organization for free. Does open government mean making the data available for any use? Or does it mean allowing citizens to access information to make political judgments?
Oak & Wind
17 Mar 09 at 8:29 pm
Well, honestly, your right, but hosting your app on google is pretty lazy.
Many websites change their sites presentation and block access to “scrapers”. Pretty common. You have to keep up if you want to provide the service. Apparently you gave up because your simple stupid google hosted app was blocked. Thats not what most people would call dedication.
Even if your not making money off of it, you theoretically could. That was your choice. Nothing has stopped companies from making a fortune off of public information. Maybe you should try that, instead of whining about the fact that the owners of the data have shut you out.
(but then again I don’t know the difference between your and you’re and I don’t have the cajones to use a real email address)
bob
17 Mar 09 at 9:11 pm
John: You and Programming reddit have different definitions of hackers. The traditional definition (not someone malicious) is what they mean, I’m sure.
Tyler Menezes
17 Mar 09 at 10:35 pm
Ann Arbor makes reddit top news story – the Downtown Development Autority idiocy http://tinyurl.com/au8xx2
MarkDilley
17 Mar 09 at 10:54 pm
Amazingly stupid opposition to public domaining of data. Put me down as a public domain advocate. http://is.gd/njHr
Douglas Reid
17 Mar 09 at 11:14 pm
Government agencies need to learn that people who work in open source generally have good intentions: http://tinyurl.com/au8xx2
Joel Perras
17 Mar 09 at 11:16 pm
Interesting story about access (or NOT) to parking data sets in Ann Arbor, Michigan: http://is.gd/njHr
Dan York
17 Mar 09 at 11:37 pm
Oak & Wind, open means open for ANY purpose, open means working with citizens and businesses to provide information in the context that works best for them. It means having an inexpensive website with a UI designed for citizens on their pcs and having an XML feed that businesses can pick up and redistribute for free or for profit via any means they like. There are no restrictions on who gets information, how they get it, or what they do with it, so long as everyone has access. It’s not just about political decision making it’s about transparency and ease of access for the benefit of all.
jm
17 Mar 09 at 11:52 pm
Trying to “secure” public information with a straight face? Only local government could be so insipidly asinine: http://tinyurl.com/au8xx2
Nate Abele
18 Mar 09 at 1:16 am
This is fantastic. I work for a small city newspaper and have been looking into ways we can make public data available automatically to our web users. I’m not trained as a programmer, but I’m capable of adapting what others have done. Your work has inspired me to learn more, and the world appreciates the knowledge you have added to the pot.
Evan
18 Mar 09 at 2:22 am
I notice that the public web page now doesn’t have any data!
http://a2dda.org/parking__transportation/available_parking_spots/
Location # of Open Spots
Ann and Ashley: ………………………. Open
4th and William: ………………………. Open
Forest: ………………………. Open
4th and Washington: ………………………. Open
Maynard: ………………………. Open
Library Lot: ………………………. Open
First and Huron: ………………………. Open
South Ashley: ………………………. Open
Or is this just because I am doing it early morning your time zone??
Robert Cowham
18 Mar 09 at 6:10 am
The DDA has posted a number (734-761-9477) that you can call and talk to a human to ask them how many spaces are available in each lot. The DDA says this is preferable to an automated free system that already had a local number.
So what happens if everyone calls every 5 minutes to ask for an update. Does the DDA then start blocking caller ID.
Steve Pierce
18 Mar 09 at 10:08 am
I grew up in A2 and so was sent this story by a friend. I have done some work with open government matters in Washington DC over the last 20 years, and so found it interesting. I have to agree, the actions of DDA sound irrational and borderline suspicious.
But I have to also agree with downtowner, the sarcastic, holier-than-thou attitude of the writer completely turns me off and engenders sympathy for the target of his chest thumping. I’m sure it plays well to the ardent fellow members of his community, but it discourages support of those who are open to education and persuasion, insluts the intelligence of the neutral reader, and puts the objects of his disdain in a defensive, bunker-stance that will only slow down reaching a productive resolution. However appealing that tone was to me in my adolesence when spouted by the White Panthers, John Sinclair, and the MC5 (look em up), it now thrives only on right-wing talk radio, anonymous internet discussion boards, and in the halls of Congress_none of which are particularly socially productive. Do you want to get something done, or just get attention?
SavMan100
18 Mar 09 at 10:12 am
jm,
I hear what you’re saying but don’t find it convincing. What if several business started up around open government data and then a few years later the gov’t wants to change? There’s a conflict: gov’t may want to change for public interest but this could conflict with private interest who, in turn, exert pressure on gov’t for it to stay the same. The conventional talk about gov’t transparency is to hold gov’t accountable and to support citizens in making political decisions — not supporting novel business models or novel citizen-based public services. Access to parking information would be very low on my priority list because it does nothing to help citizens prevent abuse in gov’t, acknowledge good gov’t, or be more informed about political issues — it only lets people find a place to park.
Oak & Wind
18 Mar 09 at 10:12 am
Another episode of Bureaucrats Being Dicks: http://tinyurl.com/au8xx2
Elliott Kember
18 Mar 09 at 2:12 pm
@tylerickson don’t forget http://bit.ly/ddablocksvoip the #a2dda is still forbidding me to access the site.
Fred Posner
18 Mar 09 at 9:17 pm
[...] This post at VoIPTechChat.com goes into the details. [...]
The 16th Minute » Blog Archive » One of the Many Reasons Michigan Will Continue to Fail
18 Mar 09 at 10:23 pm
Stunningly stupidity removes parking meter data on web in Ann Arbor. Fascinating to read the emails. http://bit.ly/144LJ
GregElin
19 Mar 09 at 2:13 pm
So has there been any public (or private you’re willing to mention) response from the DDA? It’s been quite a while, and we’re kindof on tenterhooks around here….
Bill Tozier
25 Mar 09 at 5:36 am
No direct response whatsoever. There has been some talk with Susan Pollay through a third party where she suggested some points such as bring able to take the feed down whenever they want… will make a new post about this soon.
Fred
25 Mar 09 at 7:36 am
I recently came across your blog and have been reading along. I thought I would leave my first comment. I don’t know what to say except that I have enjoyed reading. Nice blog. I will keep visiting this blog very often.
Sarah
Sarah
25 Mar 09 at 8:30 am
Thinking it’s ironic that Ann Arbor (MI), a university town & progressive community, blocked open use of parking data http://bit.ly/144LJ
subbob
3 Apr 09 at 12:56 am
[...] Note: There’s an intro, the DDA response, and Fred’s response in this article. Jump to the end to read Fred’s response.A few months back, we posted a nice.Next Page [...]
A2dda Blocks Asterisk Parking Data | Voip Tech Chat
6 Apr 09 at 1:54 am
Still no direct response?
Bill Tozier
6 Apr 09 at 10:52 am
No direct response. Tyler Erickson attended the DDA meeting on April 1, and we will post a follow-up. I have received no direct response to my email.
Fred
6 Apr 09 at 10:58 am
For the record, folks: Fred, have you ever received a phone call or email from Susan Pollay or the DDA, in the last month even?
Bill Tozier
7 May 09 at 8:30 pm
For the record. No. No email, no phone call, no letter, no direct communication to me whatsoever.
Fred
7 May 09 at 11:17 pm
@dahifi http://bit.ly/HFN4S
(not me)
Bill Tozier
8 May 09 at 12:36 am
The stance of the DDA seems highly unproductive and damaging to their image. Your project is innovative and forward thinking. I like it a lot. Thanks.
Andy Piper
19 Jun 09 at 7:21 am
Well, it looks like something has changed! http://a2dda.org/parking__transportation/available_parking_spots/ now has the number of spaces available again. Maybe someone or something finally got through to them!
Kyle Gordon
16 Jul 09 at 5:37 pm
[...] Note: For information on Ann Arbor DDA blocking this application, click here. [...]
Use Asterisk, Cepstral, and Perl to Get Parking and Weather Updates | VoIP Tech Chat
9 Oct 09 at 12:12 pm
We, The Developers of the United States of America … Really need to start an open ‘data retrieval’ protocol that can be shared among servers. That way the government cant block people from sharing data because no one data request would come from a single source =P
Brant
22 Nov 09 at 4:37 am
Im sorry but the DDA seems very damaging to me.
A2 Resident
23 Dec 09 at 8:58 am